Danazol anyone??

[patti]

Aleksandra,

I know of very few doctors that accept natural treatments as worthy of anything but ridicule. I think the only reason my MIL’s doctor now (this is doctor #4) is okay with it is because she is Indian and in India they are exposed to natural treatments all the time. Mom’s first 3 docs were hideous. Quite frankly, we just didn’t tell them anything we were doing because our ND knows enough to know if something would contradict her medical treatment. I guess that’s the approach I would recommend most people take because doctors don’t know it all. When it comes to natural healing I believe God made our bodies to heal if we treat them the way we should. If your mom has confidence in her naturapath then she should stick with him/her and her hematologist. The left hand doesn’t have to know what the right hand is doing unless she’s doing some sort of chemo. Mom actually found acupuncture very helpful and they only stopped because her platelets are just too low. Perhaps you should tell your mom to consult with her ND about the lemon juice and water instead of the regular doc. Just a thought. Obviously, if she’s having active gallbladder symptoms she may have to do something about it but I don’t understand why you say she’d have to have a refined diet? Is this something the doctor said? I know a number of people who’ve had their gallbladders removed that eat a totally normal/organic diet. Removing the gallbladder only makes it difficult to digest fats. You can do a search for a gallbladder cleanse at http://www.welltellme.com. Perhaps if she does a gallbladder flush with the guidance of her naturapath that would remove the need for surgery. Just a thought.

Patti

[Jimbob]

Sometimes removal of gall bladder is neccessary. After a lot of transfusions from different people the gall bladder can sometimes get really fouled-up and start to breakdown, literally. See my recent post under “Transfusions”. My doctors told me it might be difficult to digest fatty foods, espcially a good steak, but I have not had any problems with digestion other than gassy as long as I continue to use pribiotics. I still eat a lot of natural, organic foods, too.
My naturpathic doctor did have me hold off on fruits and veggies for a while though, except for fresh organic lemons, limes and tomatoes.
Jim

[patti]

Jim,

Yep, fully agree it’s sometimes necessary. I’ve seen folks on both sides and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. What I think is interesting is I never knew transfusions could cause problems! One of mom’s natural folks told her they thought her gallbladder was having problems. Mom hasn’t had any symptoms but this lady could tell from other stuff. Interesting, interesting. After 30+ transfusions of 2 or 3 pints that would make sense.

Thanks for adding the info. on foods. I have never heard of anyone being told nothing organic or fresh forever. I could see for a little while why the body heals maybe. Forever? That would seem extreme.

Thanks for the good info.

Patti

p.s. how do you like my bottom line?

[shirlsgirl]

Dr. Klaper from the Institute of Nutrition Education and Research in California feels that gallbladder cleanses are useless and possibly hazardous…

a quick and informative read:

http://www.vegsource.com/klaper/qa02.htm

[patti]

Interesting article. But also typical of what every doctor I’ve ever been to would be like – anti-natural. I actually know at least 3 people personally who have done a gallbladder flush and they used a strainer to catch the stones. One gal flushed more then 20 stones (she stopped counting at that point). They were not “olive oil soap” that he describes. Yep, doing a cleanse will cause some discomfort if one has stones they are passing. That is expected. But to say they are useless I think is not correct. Possibly hazardous? I suppose if one got lodged between the bile duct and pancreas it could cause pancreatitis which is very serious. Never heard of this happening nor seen it documented but doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen. For me, doing a gallbladder flush would depend on the situation I was in, if I had the luxury of time to figure out if that would work (ie, not an acute gallbladder attack happening), etc. Folks have to determine what will work best for them in their situation.

patti

[riley]

Below is a link to a Mayo Q&A about the gallbladder cleanse. The one this doctor refers to sounds a little different than the one that Patti brought up because he mentions olive oil and fruit juice. He does not recommend it. He says it can cause nausea, vomiting and diarrhea, but maybe that is due to the olive oil.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/gallbladder-cleanse/AN01283

[Jerry]

Patti ..

I really wanted to stop arguing with you over these things and you have made some improvement. But you continue to make the most incredulous statements that could really harm someone. You said, “The left hand doesn’t have to know what the right hand is doing unless she’s doing some sort of chemo”.Are you kidding me !! For you to advise any patient to do what they want (or read here) and not tell their doctor is absurd. Look at your medicine bottles … they frequently say that combining with herbs could be harmful.
You said in another post, ” Possibly hazardous? I suppose if one got lodged between the bile duct and pancreas it could cause pancreatitis which is very serious”. Yep, like sometimes fatal. In my family we consider fatal illnesses or conditions to be serious.
Patti, do you not recognize that giving advice to a foreign person who is relaying that advice to someone in Europe could be extremely dangerous due to language issues and translation problems?
Patti, I asked you to refer to how Neil gives advice. Please go back and read his posts and try to learn from him. He does it right. You don’t.

Jerry

[Aleksandra Poland]

My Dear,

I haven’t expect such a strong reaction, or this discussion to develop this way. I am sorry if I caused any negative feelings with my questions.

I do appreciate the advice – any advice – as it gives me the inspiration to continue searching; I know it’s also necessary to check all the pros and cons though. And this is what I do – I keep on reading and looking for people that could give me more information. I believe with all the information my Mom gets to know that there are more questions to ask, and she gets courage to say “no” to anything she has not enough data about.

Really, the inspiration is so important if one gets only “one hand” suggestions! In our case there is only one obligatory medicine: the classical western medicine, where only chemistry and direct surgical intervention has any meaning… To see the alternatives is very difficult, when you don’t know what you could search for. For this I’m so thankful to Patti, as she knows this problem. But also to Riley and Shirlsgirl, for providing different sources and critical perspective.
Jerry, I do appreciate your care. But I don’t get why you’re so hard on Patti – well, her bottom line realy suggests to think on our own, whatever we read in the posts. But I’ve been here just for a while and don’t know the forum history so well, so I don’t know what you relate to. Anyway, sorry I woke up some old issue.

You all help me so much – simply by answering and keeping the discourse alive. And I’m really happy to hear from all of you, the same as to be able to write you on my confusion and stress.

I send you my big thanks and best wishes, please, stay calm… Aleksandra

[patti]

Jerry,

I think I’ve covered the gammit here. The below statements are clear enough that this is what *I* would do (and not necessarily for everyone). I think I made things pretty clear as far as seeing an ND. Enough people offered other sources of reading that Aleksandra can read that I think she’s getting both sides of things pretty good. Give the girl some credit for not thinking her mom’s doctors are god and know it all. She’s seems to be doing just fine with the research.

“For me, doing a gallbladder flush would depend on the situation I was in, if I had the luxury of time to figure out if that would work (ie, not an acute gallbladder attack happening), etc. Folks have to determine what will work best for them in their situation.”

“Quite frankly, we just didn’t tell them anything we were doing because our ND knows enough to know if something would contradict her medical treatment. “

“If your mom has confidence in her naturapath then she should stick with him/her and her hematologist”

“Perhaps you should tell your mom to consult with her ND about the lemon juice and water instead of the regular doc. Just a thought. Obviously, if she’s having active gallbladder symptoms she may have to do something about it”

Four different times I suggest they have to do what’s right for them, check with an ND, etc. I also suggest an acute gallbladder attack with have to be dealt with surgically. If that ain’t good enough for you, nothing will be.

patti

[Jimbob]

Patti,
I think you’v got it right AND have made it a point for others to get it right with your notice in your signature. I sure as heck would have tried a gall bladder cleanse IF I had the time and means but for me, it all happened too fast and I had a SCT all lined-up. I believe the more you know and more options you have, the easier it is to make an INFORMED decision. I talked it over with the my naturapathic, acupuncturist, herbalist, oncoligist, hemotologist, the BMT clinic doctors AND the surgeon who ultimately did the job. The all agreed that surgery had to be immediate. The alternate care providers did not try to talk me into anything else.
Jim

[Jerry]

Jim …
Do you REALLY think Patti has it right when she says, “The left hand doesn’t have to know what the right hand is doing unless she’s doing some sort of chemo”. You said, “I talked it over with the my naturapathic, acupuncturist, herbalist, oncoligist, hemotologist, the BMT clinic doctors AND the surgeon who ultimately did the job”. Jim, there is a huge difference between what you said and what Patti said. You got it right, discussing it with ALL of your docs, she didn’t.
Jerry

[Jimbob]

Jerry,
I did leave out one very important person that I also ran things past: the chief pharmacologist at Oregon Health and Science University where I had the SCT. That was suggested by the BMT clinic doctors after they told me that they were at best sceptical of some of the items I was using. He actually helped to make them more receptive to most of the items. He also told me that they (the MDs) did not have as thorough a background in what might or would definitely interact adversely.
So, to answer your question, SOMETIMES all of the fingers on the left hand don’t need to know what the right hand is doing if the most knowledgeable part of the hand does.

But, Patti, I do not think it is a good idea to keep the standard medical practicioners completely in the dark. Some emergency meds will interact adversely with some of the most common herbal remedies.

Jim

[patti]

Jim,

I certainly understand what you’re saying and am glad you at least had doctors willing to listen. Mom’s first 2 docs only response when we told them we were pursuing natural medicine was, “your wasting your time it will do no good.” We tried with the first two docs to at least inform them of what mom was taking (they always ask at the beginning of every appt.). It got to the point where it was obvious we were creating more pain for ourselves then it was worth. They were that bad about the whole thing. Instead of appreciating that we were trying to keep them up to date they were antagonistic and nasty. By doc #3 we learned our lesson and said nothing. With doc #4 we told her we were doing natural medicine and because she is Indian she was fine with it. She was exposed to enough of it in India that she actually told us there was almost nothing mom could take that would interfere with anything she (the doc) would do. So in her case, she didn’t even want to know. She also said she trusted our ND to cover those bases; which she does. So our personal experience is that the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing is more beneficial. For other folks this might not work and I think they need to make that judgement call. You were dealing with a transplant. We are not. I think many more considerations are given/done with a transplant situation. It sounds like you had a much more positive experience at the med school. The bottom line is, you can give them a list a mile long and realistically they aren’t going to have a clue what you’re talking about. Most of what mom takes are chinese herbs.

Jerry, I think I made the point clear to cover this with folks own doctors.

patti

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