Geson, Gonzalez, Macrobiotics, Dr Weil, etc.

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• February 22, 2006 at 2:44 pm #12006
  GL

  Member

  Has anyone had any experience with these alternative (or any other) treatments?

  It would be great if you could share any knowledge or information you have on any successful alternative approaches.

  My mother (in London) is on “wait and watch” and we would like to do something that will help her body to fight the disease before it gets out of control.

  Any replies are greatly appreciated!!

  Many thanks!!!

  February 22, 2006 at 7:17 pm #12007
  patti

  Member

  Hi GL,

  My MIL is doing a macrobiotic diet with supplements to strengthen her body. She’s actually done very well for the past 18mos. Diet wise she avoids sugar, caffiene, saturated fat and “unwhole” foods. She does a standard liver cleanse juicing daily that consists of 1 beet, 1 cucumber, 1 lemon and 1 tbls olive oil. Juice the veggies/fruits and then blend in a blender with the olive oil. She uses a whey protein daily to help avoid “wasting” of muscle.

  Supplement wise she takes:

  Vitamin K to help control bleeding from low platelets

  Essiac tea – anti-cancer herbal
  Probiotic (lots of it!)
  Calcium/Magnesium for leg cramps

  Potassium/magnesium when she has heart pain (from lack of blood circulating)

  Oh my! I’m drawing a complete blank after those. She takes a lot of other stuff that just slipped my mind! Arrgh. Still waking up and haven’t finished my morning coffee!

  If you would like the rest of the list let me know and I’ll get it from her. It’s a lot of stuff.

  You are definately on the right track to help her make her body as strong as she can. I know it has really helped my MIL to not just keep the disease in check, but she has genuinely felt good this entire time despite being anemic. It is just this past week (18mos after diagnosis) that she has actually started feeling not herself. So we’re pretty thankful she’s felt good for so long.

  Best wishes,

  Patti

  February 22, 2006 at 8:24 pm #12008
  Terri

  Member

  Our Nutritionist Follows a lot of Dr Gonzalez regimen. Also you may look up prior post from John in GR who does a lot of alternative and he has a website with postings etc.

  He hasn’t posted in awhile hope all is well

  February 23, 2006 at 3:23 am #12009
  John in GR

  Member

  Hi Terri, Patti and GL,

  As a matter of fact, all is very very well. In terms of my nutritional approach check out http://www.geocities.com/marlakins/index.html . I am very high on the Gonzalez approach. I have also enjoyed God’s touch in terms of divine healing. I discussed that in a posting “Where’s Tah and John in GR”. (Feb 7)

  To those of you who are newer, Tah and I had lots of fun throwing barbs back and forth. I hope Tah is doing well.

  John

  February 23, 2006 at 5:58 am #12010
  patti

  Member

  Just a quick note to say “hi John!”

  Patti

  February 26, 2006 at 9:27 am #12011
  seekay

  Member

  My one concern about the Gonzales approach is the inclusion of animal proteins in the diet for some individuals. My feeling about animal proteins, including dairy, is generally 1) they are acid-forming foods; 3) they are the hardest foods to digest, putting strain on the liver, which in MDS patients is often very compromised; and 3) they have been shown in many instances to be positively correlated with cancer (see generally The China Study, by T Colin Campbell, specifically long term studies involving red meat and cow’s milk, showing that, for example, casein turns on mutant, cancerous DNA behavior in cells).

  On the other hand, I am by no means an expert in this area. I do agree with the detoxification and enzyme treatment aspects of Gonzales therapy.

  Also, I note that his therapy is really the work of the dentist, Dr. Kelley, who acknowledges having drawn heavily from the work of Max Gerson (father of the Gerson therapy).

  Seekay

  February 26, 2006 at 2:26 pm #12012
  sugarwhale

  Member

  Dear GL,
  My mom has been taking Esiak Caps (Essiac Tea) since Dec. 5. She takes 3 per day. They have really helped her. They are also recommended by our fine doctor. Good luck to you!
  ~~~ Janet

  February 26, 2006 at 7:45 pm #12013
  Terri

  Member

  Seekay, Our Nutritionist has Bob stay away pretty much from Dairy products as well, we use Soy Milk, YOgurt (Soy) not much cheese but occassionally he cheats. He does suggest for Bob the Red Meat and Protein diet due to the fact his is always low in Iron and his Reds/ HGB are low. The enzymes are great, I did start Bob on Esiak caps as well but really don’t see any significant change, He does have a lot of stomach issues and Constipation since we started them. Everyone else seems to have the opposite effects.

  Nutritionist also Gives us stuff to follow for detoxification especially for Liver.

  I wish you well

  February 27, 2006 at 5:29 am #12014
  seekay

  Member

  Dear Terri,

  Are you taking digestive enzymes? Wobe Mugos? AbsorbAid? That might help his stomach. At age 60 and with health problems, he may not be creating enough hydrochloric acid in his stomach to digest and absorb nutrients from the food he eats. The constipation is a concern. That definitely should not be a side effect of the ingredients in Essiac. Perhaps try Nature’s Sunshine brand Essiac capsules? Also, JUICING is a great way to get nutrients into the body, I would think, when one is not digesting food well. The green juices, with organic apple, also will help the body to detoxify.

  What are you doing for detoxification?

  Have you read up on soy products? (See, e.g., Gerson.org FAQ, mercola.com) I think the jury is still out on whether they are good/bad for you. (I’ve read that they have something in them that is an immune system inhibitor, if I recall.) Probably okay to have small quantities, though, of non-processed soy products Soy probably is better than dairy, if you need a milk substitute.

  CK

  February 27, 2006 at 7:11 pm #12015
  uno grasshopper

  Member

  It seems that there is some misinformation regarding acid/alkaline issues. Personally, I was a vegan for 2 full years while trying to recover from very severe aplastic anemia. It was not until I added meats back into my diet did I see significant improvements to my blood counts, especially my hgb. For another view of acid/alkaline check out this article http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/Acid_alk_bal.html

  Another problem I ran into while being completely vegan was I became B12 deficient within 2 years. Meat is also a good source of zinc, whereas veggies are not very good sources. Zinc is essential to proper immune function.

  I was completely sold on “no meat” UNTIL I realised I was not obtaining the healing results I was hoping for, and upon further investigation, I found the dark side of vegetarianism. One place to check out is http://www.beyondveg.com

  If I’m thinking of the same book, I read that one on the China studies. I think there are some flaws in it.

  Take care,

  Marla

  February 27, 2006 at 8:31 pm #12016
  seekay

  Member

  Thank you for posting that information. I have heard of Price-Pottenger Foundation before, but have not until now come across their website. I will study these sites in detail.

  I realized after posting that people with blood related disorders have specific issues regarding absorption of minerals/vitamins from food that might be better addressed by the inclusion of certain meats in the diet. (I believe Gonzales talks about this on his website?) Also, I checked in my Gerson list of desirable foods and see that they do include nonfat organic yogurt after the sixth week of therapy, or as allowed by the physician.

  The question is a complex one, and perhaps requires looking at the individual’s particular history, for example, if the person has other chronic conditions affecting the liver, that need to be addressed first with a diet that does not further tax the liver. Then perhaps once the liver has been strengthened, it is good to look at adding clean animal sources of certain minerals/vitamins into the diet. Or perhaps those needs can be better met by supplementation and a healthy diet of fresh organic plant-based foods grown in rich soil? I do not know the best answer to that question, and perhaps it depends partly on the individual.

  Finally, I note that Dr. Campbell recognizes that most plants sold in stores today are grown in “lifeless” non-organic soil, stripped of the microorganisms that make vitamin B12 and that animal proteins contain more of this important nutrient than most plant foods. He states that vitamin B12 is made by microorganisms in the intestines of most animals, including in our own intestines, but that this amount we create is not adequately absorbed. Thus, it is recommended to consume B12 in food. He further notes:

  “[W]e live in such a sanitized world that we rarely come into direct contact with the soilborne microrganisms that produce B12. At one point in our history, we got B12 from vegetables that hadn’t been scoured of all soil. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that modern Americans who eat highly cleansed plant products and no animal products are unlikely to get enough vitamin B12 in food,.” (The China Study, p. 232)

  So he advocates supplementation: “If you do not eat any animal products for three years or more (he states that it is estimated we hold a three-year store of vitamin B12 in our bodies), or are pregnant or breastfeeding, you should consider taking a small B12 supplement on occasion, or going to the doctor annually to check your blood levels of B vitamins and homocysteine.” (id.)

  I believe that MDS patients may have even higher than normal B12 needs, from reading the study posted on the orthomolecular oncology website.

  As for zinc, I do not know too much about that mineral in particular, and did not find, immediately, information on it in Dr. Campbell’s book. I know I read about how ingesting certain minerals with others sometimes cancels out their absorption in the body (see, e.g., Leo Galland’s Superimmunity for Kids). I don’t recall specifically with which mineral(s) zinc was combined. Why wouldn’t supplementation, though, be as good as getting it from an animal source, Marla, if you know?

  Thanks,

  CK

  February 27, 2006 at 10:20 pm #12017
  patti

  Member

  CK and Marla,

  I’m pretty familiar with price-pottinger as it is research done there regarding root canals and disease that caught our attention for my MIL. After reading a number of books and studies we are convinced mom’s MDS is the result of a single bad root canal that she had a number of years ago. Long story, but I do believe their research is pretty sound.

  Also, can you recommend a list of books that are must reads? I was intrigued about the superimmunity for kids. I haven’t heard of most of the authors listed here so any recommendations you have would be appreciated.

  Marla, interesting about the acid/alkaline thing. I know my herbalist is always harping on that. I will check that out. Thanks for the info. You’re always a great source!

  Best to the both of you,

  patti

  February 28, 2006 at 1:55 am #12018
  seekay

  Member

  Dear Patti,

  Thanks for the posting. I would recommend the following to start:

  A Cancer Therapy by Max Gerson, MD
  Death Be Not Proud by John Gunther
  –Dr. Gerson treated his son, a precocious, highly intelligent and sensitive boy in his teens who had a brain tumor. Gerson’s treatment succeeded in switching off the cancerous tumor activity and the tumor spontaneously died. Unfortunately, the boy had undergone mustard gas treatment (this was the earliest form of chemotherapy) prior to the Gerson therapy, and Charlotte believes the release of these harbored toxins back into Johnny’s system caused a regeneration of the cancerous biochemical environment, allowing tumor regrowth. Dr. Gerson, who knew nothing of chemotherapy (because it was before his time) believed that hormones that the boy took for a skin condition, caused regrowth of the virulent tumor that killed him.
  Living Proof by Michael Gearin-Tosh
  The Gerson Therapy by Charlotte Gerson
  Beating Cancer Naturally by Patrick Quillin, Ph.D.
  Superimmunity for Kids by Leo Galland, MD
  –this book was written in the late 80s, so is a little dated, I feel, but has an excellent explanation of what essential fatty acids are and why they are so important for immune system function in particular.
  The China Study by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.

  CK

  February 28, 2006 at 8:33 pm #12019
  uno grasshopper

  Member

  Hi Patti:

  Since you’re familiar w/Price and Pottenger, I’m assuming you’ve already read some of the books I think are must reads. And although these books do not specifically deal w/blood disorders, I like the approach they took to studying health. G.T. Wrench wrote that instead of studying disease, we should focus on studying health. How should we know how to be healthy, if we don’t even know what health is? (How many times have we heard people say they were not sick a day in their life, then all of a sudden they were diagnosed w/cancer, or heart disease, etc. Apparently, they weren’t as healthy as they thought! Those diseases don’t spring up over night!) So, Wrench and others like Price and Stefansson, observed groups of healthy people and documented what they did–how they lived, and ate. Interestingly, the most healthy peoples they found all ate some meat and/or dairy products. Some had diets which we now would consider acid forming diets, yet they were extremely healthy. They did not find extremely healthy vegetarians. The groups of peoples that many vegetarians cite as healthy, long-lived people are the Hunza and Villacabambas, but if you read books about them, you will find that they were not completely vegetarian and dairy from sheep and goat was a regular staple for the Hunza. One book I read of the Villacabambas has a man bragging how he ate about a dozen eggs a day. Ha! Not that they all ate that much, but this guy was a centenarian who was still healthy enough to walk and tend to himself. So, with that, the books I think are must reads are,

  1. Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, by Weston A. Price.
  2. Cancer, Disease of Civilization?, by Vilhjalmur Stefansson.
  3. Wheel of Health, by G.T. Wrench

  Other books that have good information (remember not all books have all info that’s accurate, so we must try to find which is good info and which is not, by cross-referencing their info w/other sources) and from which I think are a good spring board are

  1. Food is Your Best Medicine, by Henry Bieler
  2. Excitotoxins, the Taste that Kills, by Russell Blaylock
  3. The Cholesterol Myths, Exposing the Fallacy that Saturated Fats and Cholesterol Cause Heart Disease, by Uffe Ravnskov
  4. Sugar Blues, by William Duffy
  5. Hypothyroidism, The Unsuspected Illness, by Broda O. Barnes
  6. Know Your Fats, by Mary Enig
  7. Health and Light, by John Ott
  8. Why Am I Always So Tired, by Ann Luise Gittleman

  These are only a few that come to mind. What I like to do when I read a good book is look in their notes and check out the books they used as references. From there I been able to find other very interesting reads like William Beaumont’s book Observations and Experimentation on the Gastric Juices, and The Stress of Life by Hans Selye.

  For books dealing w/the medical profession and other related blood diseases, I have found these books interesting,

  1. Conspiracy of Cells, by Michael Gold
  2. Survivor, Taking Control of Your Fight Against Cancer, by Laura Landro
  3. Life and Death on 10 West, by Eric Lax
  4. Confessions of a Medical Heretic, by Robert S. Mendelson
  5. Life’s Blood, by Madeline Marget
  6. Commotion in the Blood, by Stephen S. Hall
  7. Genes, Blood, and Courage, by David Nathan
  8. Anatomy of an Illness as Perceived by the Patient, by Norman Cousins
  9, Blood, an Epic History of Medicine and Commerce, by Douglas Starr

  These books may not deal directly with our particular conditions, but it gives a little insight as to how things are done and further explanations that we don’t ordinarily hear from our docs.

  There are a lot more that I’m sure I missed and will likely remember once I post this. Ha! There are sooo many out there. But oh well. . . I like to read autobiographies of other people’s experiences, too, in their health struggles. They often give info that they’ve learned through their experiences no matter what disease they’re fighting. I think they’re is always something to learn from it. And there are also other aspects to health that go into the spiritual side of this all. . . it’s endless, really.

  Take care,

  Marla

  February 28, 2006 at 11:32 pm #12020
  uno grasshopper

  Member

  Hi CK:

  The reason I think zinc is better taken through food is for the reason you mentioned–vitamins, minerals, enzymes, all work together for the body to properly assimilate the nutrients. If you take the whole food source, it’s likely more bioavailable to the body because of all the cofactors in that whole food. Also, there is less chance of overdosing on any one substance using whole foods. For instance, according to Hal Huggins, you can overdose on B12 (even if it is water soluble) through artificial supplementation, but you can’t get a B12 overdose from steak, no matter how much you eat.

  Which reminds me, Dr. Cannell specializes in Vit D, and he states that the only good sources of Vit D are from the Sun and from animal sources. He claims that any veggie D source is potentially harmful to our health. (That is, if the supplement contains a veggie source that has been fractionate, there’s no problem w/eating veggies). His website can be viewed at http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/ He believes that the only good D supplement is “cholecaliferol.” Anything else, he does not recommend.

  Just my 2 cents,

  Marla

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