interesting survey

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• July 3, 2006 at 9:46 pm #13755
  shirlsgirl

  Member

  Hi everyone,

  I saw this posted on another site….

  Author: Physicians for National Health Care
  People’s Weekly World Newspaper, 06/08/06 14:52

  A study by Harvard Medical School researchers in the July 2006 issue of the American Journal of Public Health finds that U.S. residents are less healthy than Canadians.

  Moreover, despite spending nearly twice as much per capita for health care, U.S. residents experience more problems getting care and more unmet health needs.

  The study analyzes the Joint Canada-U.S. Survey of Health, the first-ever cross national health survey carried out by the two nations’ official statistics agencies.

  The authors found that U.S. residents were less healthy than Canadians, with higher rates of nearly every serious chronic disease examined in the survey, including diabetes, arthritis and chronic lung disease. U.S. residents also had more high blood pressure (18 percent of U.S. residents versus only 14 percent for Canadians). U.S. rates of obesity and sedentary lifestyle were higher, with 21 percent of U.S. respondents reporting obesity versus 15 percent of Canadians. However, U.S. residents were slightly less likely to smoke.

  Canadians had better access to most types of medical care (with the single exception of pap smears). Canadians were 7 percent more likely to have a regular doctor and 19 percent less likely to have an unmet health need. U.S. respondents were almost twice as likely to go without a needed medicine due to cost (9.9 percent of U.S. respondents couldn’t afford medicine versus 5.1 percent in Canada).

  After taking into account income, age, sex, race and immigrant status, Canadians were 33 percent more likely to have a regular doctor and 27 percent less likely to have an unmet health need.

  Race and income disparities, although present in both countries, were larger in the U.S. Nonwhites were more likely than whites to have an unmet health need in the U.S. (18.6 percent vs. 11.1 percent), while in Canada they were not (10.8 percent vs. 10.2 percent). Notably, both white and nonwhite Canadians had fewer unmet health needs than white U.S. residents.

  Poor U.S. residents (making less than $20,000 per year) were 2.6 times less likely to have a regular doctor than the affluent (those making $70,000 or more). In Canada, the poor were only 1.7 times less likely to have a regular doctor.

  In the U.S., cost was the largest barrier to care. More than seven times as many U.S. residents reported going without needed care due to cost as Canadians (7 percent of U.S. respondents vs. 0.8 percent of Canadians). Uninsured U.S. residents were particularly vulnerable; 30.4 percent reported having an unmet health need due to cost.

  Lead author Dr. Karen Lasser, primary care doctor at Cambridge Health Alliance and instructor of medicine at Harvard, commented, “Most of what we hear about the Canadian health care system is negative, in particular, the long waiting times for medical procedures. But we found that waiting times affect few patients, only 3.5 percent of Canadians vs. 0.7 percent of people in the U.S. No one ever talks about the fact that low-income and minority patients fare better in Canada. Based on our findings, if I had to choose between the two systems for my patients, I would choose the Canadian system hands down.”

  “These findings raise serious questions about what we’re getting for the $2.1 trillion we’re spending on health care this year,” said Dr. David Himmelstein, associate professor of medicine at Harvard and study co-author. “We pay almost twice what Canada does for care, more than $6,000 for every American, yet Canadians are healthier, and live two to three years longer.”

  Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, also an associate professor of medicine at Harvard and study co-author, commented: “Our study, together with a recent study showing that people in England are far healthier than Americans, is a terrible indictment of the U.S. health care system. Universal coverage under a national health insurance system is key to improving health. A single-payer national health insurance system would avoid thousands of needless deaths and hundreds of thousands of medical bankruptcies each year. In 1971, Congress almost passed national health insurance. Since then, at least 630,000 Americans have died because they failed to act. How much longer must we wait?”

  http://www.pnhp.org

  July 3, 2006 at 11:46 pm #13756
  patti

  Member

  I read this article on another website the other day and what keeps coming to my mind is the liberal media and academia’s desire to have national healthcare in this country. And they’ll spout anything that supports their cause if they think it will outrage Americans enough to scream at our government.

  Socialized medicine will not do anything to increase life expectancies or health in America. Between this forum and the AML forum on the leukemia site I’ve read enough horror stories about people not being able to get good care in Canada that I can’t imagine anyone buying into this garbage. If people think that government provided healthcare is the answer I implore you to look at two examples. Medicare and the prescription drug program. With the billions of dollars in medicare waste and the government deciding what they will and will not cover does anyone really think this is the answer? Second, seniors and the media screamed for prescription drug coverage and what they got was a behemoth so outrageous that no one can understand it and there are still huge gaps in coverage. Mom’s out of pocket expenses went up with the drug coverage – not down. Her insurance rates not only went up but her co-pays did also. Did they solve anything? No, they just shifted the cost to different parts of the health world (ie. premiums, co-pays, etc). I’ve said this over and over on this forum and I’ll say it until I die, government cannot do anything efficiently and providing healthcare is not in the best interest of the people of this country. I say all of this as someone whose family does not have health insurance. And not having it has made us look at our lifestyle and change it so we can be as healthy as possible. Does that mean we’ll continue to go without it? No. Does that mean we don’t go to the doctor when we need to? No. When we feel like it’s in the business books to do it we’ll get major medical coverage but at this point we’ve gotten more discounts from the doctors by paying cash as we go because they don’t have to bill the insurance companies or write off exhorbinant amounts and that saves the doctor money in the long run. The only system that works well is the old fee for service system. If someone really wants the government to provide healthcare then why not move to a country that provides it? If it’s that important to someone to have health insurance there are a number of countries that I’m sure would be willing to allow you to immigrate. Oh, except they probably can’t afford another person to pay healthcare for so you’d probably get turned away.

  I’m sorry, universal healthcare will never be the answer. But just like the prescription coverage, AARP and other groups like them will get people worked up about it and screaming and force our government into socialized medicine. We get what we deserve as a country when people behave like this. The bottom line is people just don’t want to take responsibility.

  Off my soap box now,

  Patti

  July 4, 2006 at 7:03 am #13757
  geebeebee

  Member

  Whew! Thankfully I’m in disagreement yet again with you, Patti….I was worried there for a minute. Don’t worry, your right-wing buddy John will come to your rescue soon, I’m sure.

  Since you got on your soap box, I’ll get on mine:

  Here are my responses to your two “examples”:

  1. Medicare. It sure is funny how the right-wing (which I’m sure you are) rips Medicare constantly, but ask anyone nearing 65, and they can’t wait to get on Medicare. Your wonderful American healthcare system has made it virtually impossible to retire early due to healthcare costs. Review ANY serious study of world healthcare systems, and our overall healthcare system (not just Medicare) offers almost the lowest bang-for-the-buck in the world. Did you know that our death rate for babies born in the country is higher than almost every developed nation in the world? Did you know that we are the only developed nation in the world that does not ensure that healthcare is given equally, and isn’t based on how much money you have or make? Probably not; Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly don’t like to talk about that much….

  Patti, I hope you’re wealthy, because if you’re not, you have been seriously played for a fool by the conservatives of this country.

  Medicare, even with its problems is MUCH more efficient with the money spent than the regular healthcare system. It’s been proven. Why do doctors not like to work with Medicare patients? Because they can gouge non-Medicare patients much more! But keep believing those that say that the government can’t help….the drug companies, doctors, and insurance companies will be laughing all the way to the bank.

  Since government is so poor at managing Medicare, I think you should do the right thing, and refuse it when you turn 65, and instead get your own insurance or pay it out of pocket. It would be the only smart thing to do, right?

  2. Prescription Drug Program. You’re right on one thing — it’s a horrible program. You know why it’s a horrible program? Because all the anti-government Republicans running our country are so bought-and-sold by the big drug companies that they gave them the farm in the deal. Don’t even try to blame that on the liberals. It is a Dubya/Republican plan through and through — signed, sealed and delivered by the man himself.

  I’ll go ahead and throw your own words at you regarding this program: We get what we deserve as a country when people behave (or vote) like this.

  You’re right, Patti. When people like you support the horrible status quo of not covering everyone in the country, letting drug companies, insurance companies, hospitals, and doctors decide how much we pay for our healthcare, that’s what we get. Thanks for continuing to support the worst-performing, and most unfair, healthcare system in the world. Congratulations!

  Like most of your type, though, you will continue to rail against facts and figures with generalizations about how government can’t run anything (of course, with no evidence, unlike what Jody provided). But, hey, that’s the right-wing way — yell out mistruths long enough, and the masses will pick up on it.

  I do think the tide is turning against your opinions, as more and more people without healthcare, and even those that do have it see double-digit raises, realize they’ve been duped by all of the scare-talk that you employ. But, as more and more evidence like Jody gave us presents itself, all your rhetoric will be no more than that — hollow talk that doesn’t represent what is really happening in our country.

  Greg

  July 4, 2006 at 11:39 am #13758
  eve

  Member

  wow

  eve

  July 4, 2006 at 2:05 pm #13759
  gemloyear

  Member

  Whew
  Ellie

  July 4, 2006 at 4:25 pm #13760
  Jack_dup1

  Member

  Hi Gregg,
  glad your still keeping us honest. This is the 4th of July, we are celebrating our right of open and honest debate. I agree with you 100% although I do lean to the right on most issues, we are not all ditto heads. I’m not convinced the Canadian plan is the way to go, but we do need drastic change. It sure won’t be Hillary and her crowd.
  Jack

  July 4, 2006 at 4:47 pm #13761
  Jerry

  Member

  Greg …

  I second what Jack just said … I consider myself to be a “moderate” Republican, pretty liberal on social issues but more conservative on fiscal issues. However, my Republican party has left me over the last few years and I now find myself in a no man’s land. But, your very thoughtful and insightful analysis was right on point and I commend you for your thoughts. I don’t even pretend to have all the answers to the health care crisis but it certainly needs to be addressed. You are obviously much younger that I so I urge you to keep up the critical thinking and speaking out on the important issues of our times. Thank you …

  Jerry

  July 4, 2006 at 4:51 pm #13762
  cthomas555

  Member

  Greg,

  My sentiments exactly. Thanks for the message.

  Ditto head,
  Chris

  July 4, 2006 at 5:02 pm #13763
  Bkwits

  Member

  My husband and I were self-employed for 30 plus years. We were always chasing good health insurance coverage at affordable rates. We were willing to take high deductibles. My husband’s first hospilization(16 years ago) was for massive heart failure. He had quadruple by-pass surgery. His private insurer denied the total claim as a pre-existing condition. They ended paying it, but it was a lot of stress for an recovering heart patient. I was thankful that he had Medicare and Blue Cross during his later cancer surgery and CMML treatments. So far I am saving money with the drug coverage, but the jury’s still out on that one.

  Just my own experience.

  Happy 4th of July
  Barb

  July 4, 2006 at 7:18 pm #13764
  patti

  Member

  When I originally answered Greg’s post it was rather long. My husband brought me back to the following verse.

  “Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.” Proverbs 26:5

  So I’ve deleted my long, thought provoking post and leave this discussion at the above verse. I could spout statistics all day long, it will not change what Greg thinks. An I’m having to bridle myself in this post not to say more.

  We are off to celebrate our 4th of July being thankful for the freedoms our founders installed in our constitution. Including the freedoms to debate and speak our minds and worship freely in this country.

  Happy 4th everyone.

  Patti

  July 4, 2006 at 7:57 pm #13765
  Bkwits

  Member

  Hi Patti,

  Happy Fourth of July!! I certainly am thankful for the freedoms we enjoy in America. You should probably take a deep breath and consider that you are posting this on a forum for people suffering from complicated, expensive-to-treat conditions. Many are worried about their insurance coverage and financial health. I believe that as Americans we are a compassionate people. We think of ourselves as our brothers and sisters keepers.

  Don’t worry you will get a chance to purchase your own private health insurance at 65,it’s called a supplement. My husband and I were paying about $400 per month for basic coverage with no drug coverage, plus paying for Part B Medicare. At one point we were spending far in excess of that for medications.
  Good thoughts to you and your mom.
  Barb

  July 4, 2006 at 8:06 pm #13766
  geebeebee

  Member

  Ha ha! I was hoping you would ask. Unlike the right-wing nuts, us liberals usually read things, rather than watch FOX and listen to Rush all day:

  US has second worst newborn death rate in modern world:

  http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/parenting/05/08/mothers.index/

  OK, there’s one down. That was easy.

  Oh, while I’m at it, here’s an article for my other argument, that we have one of the poorest performing healthcare systems in the world. I was a little bit wrong on that…we have the worst!!

  http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_10202004

  Let’s see. You have no insurance at all now? Wow, that is possibly the worst and scariest move anyone can make in this country. So, if you get in a car wreck and break 20 bones, what are you going to do? Knock down a couple of sesame seeds? LOL.

  You say “I would be thrilled to get our own insurance when I turn 65.” How am I to believe that when you don’t even have your own now!?!

  If you have ANYTHING to protect — home, savings, car, etc. you HAVE to have insurance in this country if you can possibly afford it. It frequently costs over $10,000 a day to be in the hospital….do you have $300K handy if you have that car wreck mentioned above and have to spend 30 days in the hospital? And, even if you do, would you rather spend that or $3K a year on insurance?

  I love the fact that you are hammering socialized medicine when you don’t even have any healthcare insurance yourself!! If there’s anyone who should support it, it should be you! Man, that Kool-Aid Dubya and Uncle Dick Cheney is serving you must taste good…..

  Further on….

  Patti, you really need to read up on your politics….do you realize that Dubya’s party is in control of both branches of Congress, and Dubya hasn’t bent to ANYTHING the Democrats have asked for in the last eight years?!?! Come on, I’m not the typical Rush Limbaugh listener — you can’t sneak that stuff by me….

  Oh, and finally, what right-wing, poorly-constructed argument would be complete without the “if you don’t love it, leave it” statement? Actually Patti, if our ancestors were all like you, we would still be saluting the King and Queen of England…if anything, YOU are neglecting your duty as an American to stand up for what is right. Oh, I forgot though, the people with the money are the smartest ones, right? So just go on your merry way, do what the rich doctors, insurance companies, and drug companies tell you to do. You’ll be rewarded in the end, right? Yes, you’ll be rewarded with no insurance in case of a catastrophe!!

  Patti, it’s funny that you tried to say that my stuff doesn’t even deserve a response, when you only speak in generalities with absolutely nothing to back it up. Please supply anything you have to contradict that the US is the worst-performing healthcare system in the world. Other than seeing that, I think this argument is over.

  Yes, in my home, we are thankful for freedom, too. Freedom from letting the wealthy and those in power from trying to decide my family’s health. I don’t really see how you are thankful for your President (you did vote for him, I assume?) having such a horrific healthcare record that you don’t even have insurance, but hey, I guess that’s what Dubya counts on…people like you, right?

  Greg

  July 4, 2006 at 8:12 pm #13767
  geebeebee

  Member

  Patti, since I’ve replied, I realized that you removed your original. I think that was a wise move — it really didn’t have much going for it, and was not very well thought-out.

  Oh, and I’ll take my chances on who the fool is, since that is essentially what you called me….someone who supports Dubya and doesn’t have health insurance, or someone who speaks out against injustices in our horrible system.

  Greg

  July 4, 2006 at 9:06 pm #13768
  geebeebee

  Member

  Sorry, Chris, I meant she removed the one in which she originally responded to me. I wish I had copied it, too..

  I guess being called a fool by her will have to do!! :>)

  G

  July 4, 2006 at 9:51 pm #13769
  Bkwits

  Member

  Glenn,
  I’ve been called worse. Well at least some of us got our adrenaline up. lol.

  Seriously, I estimate that my husband’s medical bills during the last two months of his life were in excess of $300,000. That doesn’t include the rest of last year’s (many tx’s, Vidaza, many specialists, well you know).I’m not a fan of government bureaucracy, but I was surprised to find the that government was efficient in dealing with Medicare, SS benefits,etc. They even notified the VA, who contacted me about Joe’s life insurance. We are far from perfect, but thank God we have something.
  Barb

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