Geson, Gonzalez, Macrobiotics, Dr Weil, etc.

[bhanson]

Marla, In order to test my B-12 I took B-12 for several months and then had my serum level checked. It was low. They gave me B-12 shots and my symptoms got better. Now, when I am checked, my B-12 serum is high, however, I still need the shots at least once a week. They do have a test for the intrinsic value, but I suppose it is expensive. They no longer us the Shilling Test which uses radioactivity. Interestingly, they ou consider Pernicious Anemia an autoimmune disorder. Because my other 2 sisters had PA, they are satisfied. You are so right about having something in your blood, but not being able to use it because of some other factor. It seems interesting that if you search long enough, everthing is related. Best of days to you, Bonnie

[uno grasshopper]

Hi Patti:

Morphology is just a study on what her cells actually look like under a microscope. Lots of times when people have blood problems like we do, then our cells aren’t shaped normally. Depending upon what types of shapes we see, “sometimes” it can give us an idea of what might be wrong or what might help. For instance, “normally” if a person has a B12 deficiency, then their red cells would appear larger than normal (as indicated by a high MCV). If a person had iron deficiency, then their red cells could appear smaller than normal (shown as a low MCV). If there were a lot of fragmented cells in the sample then it could indicate that there’s some sort of hemolysis going on. Things like that. The only problem is if your MIL is getting lots of transfusions right now, then her sample would likely reflect the donor’s blood, not her own. I didn’t realise that she was needing that much blood at this time.

How do you know she’s bleeding internally? Is she actually passing some blood or swelling up? Or is it just that her need for transfusion has greatly increased? If it’s just her hgb dropping, but no evidence of bleeding, then she might be hemolysing her reds rather than bleeding it out.

Take care,

Marla

[patti]

Hi Marla,

Thanks for the morpho info. Yep, it probably wouldn’t work on mom right now. There are a couple of tails the doctor is chasing. She does think mom’s marrow is no longer making any RBC’s. Mom is experiencing some mild stomach distension that isn’t related to spleen or liver swelling, so that’s a possibility. Once mom does the stool test we’ll know if she’s bleeding out in the stool. The doctor said she is definately bleeding somewhere, they just don’t know where yet. Or how many places. She said it’s possible to bleed in the stomach and just have it pool and not show up in the stool, which would account for the belly swelling. Mom has also had several small strokes that we can tell. Nothing that has affected her mentally but by her description that is what the doc thinks is happening. Today mom told me she had a horrible headache last night. My thoughts quickly went to Hans’ experience. Since we don’t yet know what’s going on there’s a lot of assuming. I’m hoping Tuesday will clear things up. But the doctor did say that mom’s time is quickly running out. For whatever reason. They won’t do a BMB because of how low her platelets are and ultimately I think that’s the only way we can know. Does hemolysing mean her body is just eating the red cells? If that were the case, wouldn’t her spleen and/or liver be swollen?

I’m exhausted. Last week was so hard. Today I cleaned all day because I knew I would get nothing done next week. I lost 3 days of school with my kids last week. I know none of this matters. I’m just stressing. I keep trying to remind myself, “sufficient is the day for the evil thereof.” I guess I am worried about Marie being home alone when mom goes. I have asked God all along to please let me be with mom and I’m just going to have to trust that will happen (or someone will be with her). In the meantime, I wish we could get a handle on what’s going on. The not knowing is very difficult.

Even my poor hubby is exhausted from watching the kids. He keeps reminding me God did not make men to multi-task. Forget trying to keep our business moving right now. Okay, I’ve blabbed enough. I just had to vent. I know God will not give me more than I can handle – but it feels like it sometimes.

Thanks for the help. Any ideas you have I’d love to hear.

Patti

[John in GR]

Awesome discussion. I’m totally impressed. Lots of study; great interaction. Gonzalez has 10 different diets, I understand, based on a battery of tests. One size does not fit all. In general, however, Dr. G does advocate a meat protein diet for those w blood related disorders. I consume a lot of meat.

Seekay, I have family a friends in the LA and San Diego area. It might be fun for you, Marla (who lives in the LA area)and I along w friends and family to connect for lunch when I’m in town. Marla and I have done it for the past couple of years. I certainly have benefitted and Marla has graciously put up w me.

John

[patti]

Can someone give me this Gonzalez guy’s first name so I can look him up and read? I am very curious what he has to say after all this talk. Thanks

patti

[seekay]

Hi Patti,

It’s Nicholas. He has a website. My feeling about him is that perhaps his bedside manner leaves a little to be desired. But the therapy, based on that of the Texas dentist William Kelley, is similar in many respects to the Gerson therapy developed by Max Gerson, MD.

In fact, Kelley studied the Gerson therapy in coming up with his own “version” of it. I sort of think Kelley and Gonzales owe a great deal to Max Gerson. It’s a little strange to me that Gonzales never mentions Gerson on his online website.

Gerson incorporates a liver extract and dairy (nonfat yogurt) at approx six weeks into the therapy. Otherwise, Gerson’s diet is largely focused on certain vegetables and fruit and supplements like Lugol’s solution, potassium, pancreatic enzymes, B12, etc. Also, it incoporates various herbs and certain other alternative cancer therapies as the individual’s situation requires.

Gonzales doesn’t elaborate on the multitude of supplements he prescribes. He does mention heavy use of pancreatic enzymes.

Dear John: I would love to meet you and Marla. I live in LA. I will email my telephone number separately.

Best,

CK

[patti]

Thanks CK. I will look him up. Hope you get to meet with John and Marla some day. If my hubby were more into LA we’d visit too. You all are going to have to hicktown Idaho when we move.

patti

[seekay]

Here, Patti–I copied this from the NCI website. This discusses their seven year study of the Gonzales Regimen and gives some history behind it.
best,

CK

Questions and Answers About the Gonzalez Regimen

What is the Gonzalez regimen trial for pancreatic cancer?
The Gonzalez regimen trial is a 7-year clinical study which compares the standard treatment for advanced pancreatic cancer with the Gonzalez nutritional treatment regimen of pancreatic enzymes and dietary supplements. It is funded by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH).[1]

How common is pancreatic cancer?
In 2005, it is estimated that 32,180 people will get pancreatic cancer, with the cases evenly divided between men and women. Because of the high mortality of the disease, 31,800 people are expected to die from the disease in 2005 (Note: Not all of the deaths are associated with cancers newly diagnosed in 2005).[2]

How was the Gonzalez regimen trial developed?
Nicholas Gonzalez, a New York physician, conducted an initial study of his nutritional treatment and submitted selected results to the National Cancer Institute (NCI) in 1993. All of the 11 patients in the study had some form of pancreatic cancer. Patients treated with the Gonzalez regimen appeared to live somewhat longer than most others with the same type of cancer.[3]

NCI decided that for various reasons, one of which was the small number of patients, this first study did not clearly demonstrate benefits from the Gonzalez nutritional treatment. The results were promising enough, however, that a second study was suggested which would include a much larger number of patients. This second study is the ongoing prospective case control study sponsored by the NCCAM at the NIH. The trial is being conducted in conjunction with Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center in New York.

How does the Gonzalez regimen trial work?
The study is now enrolling patients with inoperable Stage II-IV pancreatic cancer. The Gonzalez regimen patients receive pancreatic enzymes orally every 4 hours and at mealtimes for 16 days. Dietary supplements in pill form, such as magnesium citrate, papaya, vitamins and other minerals are also given. Daily coffee enemas are part of the treatment.

Patients who are given standard treatment receive a chemotherapeutic drug called gemcitabine intravenously for 30 minutes once a week for 7 weeks. Researchers plan to statistically compare these patients with the Gonzalez regimen patients.

How did Dr. Gonzalez develop the pancreatic enzyme treatment?
In 1902, James Beard, a Scottish physician, proposed that pancreatic enzymes might control and kill cancer cells.[4] Later, William Kelley, DDS, further developed Dr. Beard’s approach and published the results of his own practice.[5] Impressed by these findings, Dr. Gonzalez began working closely with Dr. Kelley. The Gonzalez nutritional regimen is a combination of this work with Dr. Kelley and the theories and practice of Dr. Max Gerson [6] who also treated cancer through diet and nutritional supplementation.

What are the chances of living with pancreatic cancer?
Cancer of the pancreas is rarely curable. It is the fifth leading cause of cancer death in the United States. The longest survival occurs when the tumor is truly localized to the pancreas. Unfortunately, this stage of disease accounts for fewer than 20% of cases and results in an approximately 20% 5-year survival rate for patients with completely resected tumors.

The 5-year survival rate for all patients with pancreatic cancer is only 4%. For patients with advanced cancers, the overall survival rate is less than 1% at 5 years, with most patients dying within 1 year. Patients with any stage of pancreatic cancer can appropriately be considered candidates for clinical trials because of the poor response to chemotherapy, radiation therapy, and surgery. However, palliation of symptoms may be achieved with conventional treatment.

References

Chabot J, Herbert Irving Comprehensive Cancer Center at Columbia University: Prospective Cohort Study of Gemcitabine Versus Intensive Pancreatic Proteolytic Enzyme Therapy With Ancillary Nutritional Support (Gonzalez Regimen) in Patients With Stage II, III, or IV Adenocarcinoma of the Pancreas, CPMC-IRB-8544, Clinical trial, Closed. [PDQ Clinical Trial]

American Cancer Society.: Cancer Facts and Figures 2005. Atlanta, Ga: American Cancer Society, 2005. Also available online. Last accessed February 8, 2006.

Gonzalez NJ, Isaacs LL: Evaluation of pancreatic proteolytic enzyme treatment of adenocarcinoma of the pancreas, with nutrition and detoxification support. Nutr Cancer 33 (2): 117-24, 1999. [PUBMED Abstract]

Beard J: The Enzyme Treatment of Cancer and its Scientific Basis. London: Chatto & Windus, 1911.

Kelley WD: One Answer to Cancer. Mount Pearl, Canada: Cancer Coalition for Alternative Therapies, Inc. 1999. Also available online. Last accessed August 22, 2005.

Gerson M: The cure of advanced cancer by diet therapy: a summary of 30 years of clinical experimentation. Physiol Chem Phys 10 (5): 449-64, 1978. [PUBMED Abstract]

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